Colonisation of space is simply not possible, it is a pure fantasy. There aren't enough resources on Earth and all the planets & asteroids are too far away, never mind other stars. The whole thing is utterly ridiculous.
Yes, in "More Everything Forever," Adam Becker (an astrophysicist) lays out the insurmountable obstacles to that endeavour very clearly. The near-absence of broader pushback against these insane ideas speaks to the general lack of a well-rounded education among many who are well-resourced and secure to speak up.
Yudkowski has to be the stupidest person in tech right now. I love the comedy potential of an evil mad scientist activating his doomsday weapon to eradicate humanity by farting out B flat on a kazoo.
It seems ridiculous that we should imagine other civilizations would be just like ours, so I do find the idea that maybe that they chose not to colonize appealing. I'd also like to think capitalism isn't inevitable, and that other civilizations out there have developed better ways to live together. I always joke with my friends that the aliens have visited us but thought we were too dumb and are leaving us alone.
It all hinges on how one defines "civilization." At the end of Debt: The First 5,000 Years, David Graeber relates the story of an indigenous person just hanging out at the beach. He gets accosted by a "civilized" (i.e., Western) man who chides him for lazying about on the beach. The indigenous man points out that he already caught some fish that will feed him for the next few days.
The Western man says that in this case he could sell his extra fish to make some money so that he can employ a few more men to catch more fish and set up a business. The indigenous man in return asks why he would need to set up the business. The Western man, taken aback by the man's lack of entrepreneurial spirit, says, "With a business, you can earn more money, build a nice home, start a family, make a name for yourself, and then retire comfortably to a beach home."
Befuddled, the indigenous man asks, "I should do all that so that some day in the future when I'm old I may be doing that what I'm already doing now?"
I may have not got all the details right of this story, but the gist is that it's not unreasonable to assume that the ideas and actions that underpin our "civilization" (which has lasted less than a blink of an eye, given Earth's history) are grossly at odds with what most other cultures, earthbound or extraterrestrial, consider truly valuable and desirable.
Brilliant breakdown of Hassabis' blind spot here. The stepping stones argument is genuinely underated - we don't need full ASI to collapse if current systems erode institutions and destabilize governance enough. Reminds me of how social media's algorithmicfeed ended up fragmenting consensus reality way before anyone predicted that outcome. Dunno why more people aren't focused on this path.
Carl Sagan said: “All civilizations become either spacefaring or extinct.”
Human extinction is most plausibly driven by a post-overshoot collapse that irreversibly reduces energy surplus and industrial complexity below the threshold required for spacefaring capability. Following this collapse, humanity persists in small, Earth-bound populations vulnerable to accumulated long-term extinction risks. Human extinction is not imminent, but it may already be locked in if complexity collapses before spacefaring becomes irreversible—I would argue that we are already past that point.
It’s funny that you mention Robin Hanson being a White Nationalist because I was reading “More Everything Forever” and the book doesn’t mention that part about him at all, only that he’s a TESCREAList.
Colonisation of space is simply not possible, it is a pure fantasy. There aren't enough resources on Earth and all the planets & asteroids are too far away, never mind other stars. The whole thing is utterly ridiculous.
I totally agree!
Yes, in "More Everything Forever," Adam Becker (an astrophysicist) lays out the insurmountable obstacles to that endeavour very clearly. The near-absence of broader pushback against these insane ideas speaks to the general lack of a well-rounded education among many who are well-resourced and secure to speak up.
Yudkowski has to be the stupidest person in tech right now. I love the comedy potential of an evil mad scientist activating his doomsday weapon to eradicate humanity by farting out B flat on a kazoo.
It seems ridiculous that we should imagine other civilizations would be just like ours, so I do find the idea that maybe that they chose not to colonize appealing. I'd also like to think capitalism isn't inevitable, and that other civilizations out there have developed better ways to live together. I always joke with my friends that the aliens have visited us but thought we were too dumb and are leaving us alone.
It all hinges on how one defines "civilization." At the end of Debt: The First 5,000 Years, David Graeber relates the story of an indigenous person just hanging out at the beach. He gets accosted by a "civilized" (i.e., Western) man who chides him for lazying about on the beach. The indigenous man points out that he already caught some fish that will feed him for the next few days.
The Western man says that in this case he could sell his extra fish to make some money so that he can employ a few more men to catch more fish and set up a business. The indigenous man in return asks why he would need to set up the business. The Western man, taken aback by the man's lack of entrepreneurial spirit, says, "With a business, you can earn more money, build a nice home, start a family, make a name for yourself, and then retire comfortably to a beach home."
Befuddled, the indigenous man asks, "I should do all that so that some day in the future when I'm old I may be doing that what I'm already doing now?"
I may have not got all the details right of this story, but the gist is that it's not unreasonable to assume that the ideas and actions that underpin our "civilization" (which has lasted less than a blink of an eye, given Earth's history) are grossly at odds with what most other cultures, earthbound or extraterrestrial, consider truly valuable and desirable.
Brilliant breakdown of Hassabis' blind spot here. The stepping stones argument is genuinely underated - we don't need full ASI to collapse if current systems erode institutions and destabilize governance enough. Reminds me of how social media's algorithmicfeed ended up fragmenting consensus reality way before anyone predicted that outcome. Dunno why more people aren't focused on this path.
Carl Sagan said: “All civilizations become either spacefaring or extinct.”
Human extinction is most plausibly driven by a post-overshoot collapse that irreversibly reduces energy surplus and industrial complexity below the threshold required for spacefaring capability. Following this collapse, humanity persists in small, Earth-bound populations vulnerable to accumulated long-term extinction risks. Human extinction is not imminent, but it may already be locked in if complexity collapses before spacefaring becomes irreversible—I would argue that we are already past that point.
It’s funny that you mention Robin Hanson being a White Nationalist because I was reading “More Everything Forever” and the book doesn’t mention that part about him at all, only that he’s a TESCREAList.